2025 Draft thread
- Thread starter LordSensei1958
- Start date
Lord Chevy
No absolutes: A lesson on o-line arm length with Dante Scarnecchia
Are short arms a deal-breaker for offensive tackles at the NFL level?
By
Imagn Images/NBC Sports Boston
Imagn Images/NBC Sports Boston
WRENTHAM, Mass. -- Dante Scarnecchia was in his element.
He sat at home with a cup of coffee, at a table just off his kitchen, studying video of offensive line play on his laptop. He gripped a clicker in his right hand so he could start and stop the action at will. He hit pause to point out footwork, posture and hand placement. He referenced notes scribbled on pink Post-Its.
One of the most accomplished offensive line coaches in the history of football -- a five-time Super Bowl champion and member of the Patriots Hall of Fame -- Scarnecchia has been retired since 2020. But the 77-year-old remains, at his core, a teacher.
On Thursday morning, about seven miles from where he used to regularly address his 300-pound students at Gillette Stadium, over the course of 90 minutes, Scarnecchia taught.
The lesson? How arm length impacts offensive tackle play.
It is one of dozens of measurements prospects endure as they're poked and prodded ad infinitum prior to the NFL Draft at the end of April. But it matters for offensive tackles, and the difference of a few inches -- even a few eighths of an inch -- can impact your draft status, making or losing you millions.
Back in 2018, when the Patriots drafted short-armed Georgia tackle Isaiah Wynn (33 3/8 inches) in the first round, Scarnecchia made it very clear how he felt about the importance some placed on those arm measurements.
"That [expletive] is way overrated," he said.
When asked over the phone this week if he still felt the same way almost seven years later, he offered up an in-person tutorial. Sitting alongside him and watching video of pass-protectors doing their thing, he explained, would better illustrate the points he wanted to make.
"A picture," he said, "is worth 1,000 words."
Sword and shield
At last week's NFL Scouting Combine, where some of the largest and most awe-inspiring athletes in college athletics convene for the biggest job interview of their lives, one of the most buzz-worthy storylines concerned the results of LSU tackle Will Campbell's arm measurement.
For months, Campbell was widely viewed as the top tackle in the draft class -- not to mention a good fit for the tackle-needy Patriots, who own the No. 4 overall pick -- despite the fact that evaluators knew his arms were short.
The question in Indianapolis was exactly how short was his reach? Would Campbell hit 33 inches, the number that has become for some evaluators a modern-day cutoff for players at his position?
He would not.
Campbell's 32 5/8-inch arms ranked in the seventh percentile among tackles at the combine over the last 20 years. His 77 3/8-inch wingspan is the shortest of any tackle at the combine since 2011. For some, it's confirmation that Campbell should have to play guard or center at the next level.
Multiple NFL personnel departments have indicated that a large number of players in Indy this year had arms that measured shorter than expected, a not-completely-stunning quirk that can happen at the combine depending on who is doing the measuring. But among the teams contacted by NBC Sports Boston, the longest arm measurement on the books for Campbell coming into the combine was 32 7/8 inches, still well below average.
Does it matter, Scarnecchia was asked?
He called up clips of former Patriots tackles Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon, Wynn and others, highlighting their ability to "punch" defenders with two hands, jolting them off their paths.
He pointed out the "junction point," where a tackle and an edge rusher were set to collide.
He identified the "launch point," the defender’s target where the quarterback was expected to finish his drop from behind center.
Throughout, Scarnecchia paused the video at the time when his tackles made contact with their assignments. Their arms were consistently bent at the elbows, with their hands up and tight to their bodies, like warriors going into battle wielding a sword in one hand and a shield in the other, Scarnecchia explained.
They waited patiently for defenders to get close enough that a shove would do real damage, then used that coiled position to explode out and jar the opponents off course when the time was right.
Solder. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
Cannon. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
Vollmer. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
Wynn. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
"When he's trying to rush around you," Scarnecchia said, "he's going to be close enough for you to hit him. How much punch are you able to generate? If your hands are in front of your chest, you're able to generate more than if your hands are down, or if one hand is up and one hand is down. You gotta be able to hit these guys with both hands. You gotta hit them with everything you got or they can get around you."
The point was clear. At the moment of truth, just before force was generated, all the tackles Scarnecchia showed were tightly wound with what might best be described as "alligator arms."
That was sound technique. That was what Scarnecchia taught. And in those moments, when the proper technique was deployed, the difference between Wynn's 33-inch arms and Solder's almost 36-inch arms was indiscernible.
"Can you fix guys and get them to play better if they happen to have shorter arms? Yeah, you can," Scarnecchia said. "If they really take coaching and you get their hands where they're supposed to be, and carry them where they're supposed to be, and you don't violate those principles, then they have a chance to do all right.
"I don't think [short arms are] as problematic. It becomes problematic when they can't do the things you want them to do to overcome that particular limitation."
Trust the tape
Scouts and coaches who have spoken to NBC Sports Boston about Campbell and his arms echoed Scarnecchia in arguing that length isn't the be-all-end-all, even for tackles. A player shouldn’t be outright dismissed because of arm length, they explained, unless an on-field assessment of the player raises questions about that particular measurement.
"For me, you ask, 'What does the tape say?' It's only a concern if it shows up on tape," said one offensive coordinator whose team is in the tackle market. "Are his arms getting knocked down and are people getting into his chest?
"You have to judge his play first, and then if you notice the limitation, then that's when you go back and dig into it. But if all he's doing is locking [expletives] down, it shouldn't prevent you from taking him."
Campbell has spent the better part of the last three seasons locking pass-rushers down. The 6-foot-6, 319-pounder was a three-year starter at LSU, a two-time captain, and was named a consensus All-American for his play last season. He allowed just two sacks over the course of the last two seasons, according to Pro Football Focus.
"Will is so good with his technique and his hands and playing inside out," said one scout whose team is in the tackle market this offseason. "He's had dominant stretches in the SEC, which is obviously a great measuring stick. That's the best competition out there."
Scarnecchia is working with two draft-eligible linemen this offseason in Boston College's Ozzy Trapilo and Drew Kendall. He's not oblivious to the coverage Campbell has received since the combine, but he admits he's not an expert on Campbell's game.
When asked more generally if he would be comfortable playing a short-armed tackle back when he was coaching, he answered emphatically.
"Yes," he said. "If he can do what you ask him to do, and there are no liabilities in his play? Heck yeah. But if it all of a sudden just kept showing up and showing up, and, 'OK, this is a problem,' then you've gotta do something else."
No absolutes
Length at tackle, of course, is preferred.
It can help coaches and roster-builders breathe easy to have physical prototypes at that position. If linemen find themselves in a bind and if their technique slips, a few inches in arm length can provide more margin for error. There are reasons NFL teams have benchmarks they would like to see their draftees hit at that position, just as most teams have hand-size preferences for quarterbacks and 40-yard-dash time thresholds for cornerbacks.
“It was poison (at one time)," Scarnecchia said. "People would say a guy who was 33 inches couldn't play out there at tackle. Well, that's been proven incorrect. There's enough of those guys that are playing.
"Jake Matthews has 33 3/8 inch-arms, been in the league 11 years and played out there pretty good. You just can't say, 'It has to be this.' Penei Sewell (33 1/4 inches). Matt Light (33 1/2 inches). There's just too many examples of this."
Penei Sewell (3x-Pro Bowler, 2x First-Team All Pro) is one of the best offensive tackles in football.
Scarnecchia put the clicker aside, held his hand up in the light, and made a pinching gesture to show the additional length Campbell would need to change the minds of those who feel he can't play tackle as a pro.
"Your thumb and your first finger," he said, "what's the difference? It's where [your arms] are and how you use them. It's how you carry them and how you use them. I think that's really important."
A league source whose team has scouted Campbell closely felt similarly.
"If he was a half-inch longer, I don't think it'd even be a question," the source said. "Having longer arms would maybe make you sleep a little better. But some have 35 inches and don’t use it. I think Will uses all 32-plus on every snap.
"For me, it’s not a big thing. He’s done a really good job his entire career. I don’t think it’s a one-size-fits-all thing. Look at everything. Look at how he plays, his technique, his angles.
"I think Will is a tackle. Based on his film, his consistency, his dependability, his athleticism, his strength, if we took him and played him out there, I’d be super comfortable with it."
'Is it a factor?'
It's possible that a lack of length could help lead to poor technique. Scarnecchia was careful not to imply that having shorter arms was a total non-factor.
But when asked if it could lead to lunging or other lapses in fundamentals that could make a tackle vulnerable, Scarnecchia leaned once again on the core concepts that he tried to ingrain in his players for two decades.
"If you carry yourself with your weight to the inside of your midline, where you're always strong to your inside -- because everything you want to force is to the outside, away from the launch point," he said. "If you start with that principle first, I think a guy will have more of a chance to be successful than if his weight is outside and now he's got to recover and come back in.
"The other thing is, and I may be completely different than everyone else in football that's coaching offensive line, but we're hitting them with two hands. Every time. We're not one-handing anybody. You've got to use every tool that you've got in your box, and you've got two of 'em. Why would you ever just use one? I think two hands are really important.
"I think the misusage of hands -- whether too wide, or you're not hitting them with enough, or you're reaching instead of punching -- punching is when they're close enough to hit. Reaching is when they're too far away to throw a punch. I think that's poison. I think you've gotta wait and be patient, and when they get close enough to hit, you gotta hit 'em."
Campbell's play at LSU would suggest his technique is already advanced.
Last season, in a three-week stretch, he saw three potential first-round pass-rushers -- Landon Jackson (33 1/4-inch arms) of Arkansas, Shemar Stewart (34 1/8-inch arms) of Texas A&M and Jihad Campbell (32 1/2-inch arms) of Alabama -- and didn't allow a sack, all the while flashing the elite-level athleticism he put on display at the combine.
Check out NFL Draft highlights from OT Will Campbell out of LSU
"In pass pro," NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah wrote while ranking Campbell as his No. 9 player in the draft class, "he stays square, bends well and keeps his hands in tight. He will expose his chest at times (due to his lack of ideal length) but he's able to recover after giving up some initial ground.
"He can slide and redirect with ease. He flashes the upper-body strength to torque and control defenders... He is just scratching the surface of his potential and should start at tackle for a decade, provided he stays healthy."
For Patriots coach Mike Vrabel, taking Campbell early in the first round would be a statement pick.
Aside from the possibility that he could protect quarterback Drake Maye's blind side for years to come, what Campbell is expected to bring in terms of intangible qualities would make him a particularly good fit for a franchise looking for leaders.
Scouts believe his football character, competitiveness, and work ethic would embody that which Vrabel values. The unspoken message behind the pick would be that, with Vrabel in charge, how you play matters more than how you measure.
It would be a sentiment shared by the o-line coach who lives down the road from Vrabel's new office, who carved out a legendary career working with various body types at one of the game's most important positions.
"I feel like [length] is not the one thing you should evaluate someone on or discount someone on," Scarnecchia said. "When a guy has marginal arm length, you look and see, 'Is it a factor in how he plays?'
"If it's not, then it's overrated."
This is all I got from that article (dont have a photoshop license anymore so had to use paint lol)
Lord Chevy
I'm home
That's hilarious!
People are overreacting to his arms, he's going to be a fine player.. i understand maybe not wanting him at #4 though.
captain stone
Well-known member
No absolutes: A lesson on o-line arm length with Dante Scarnecchia
Are short arms a deal-breaker for offensive tackles at the NFL level?
By
Imagn Images/NBC Sports Boston
Imagn Images/NBC Sports Boston
WRENTHAM, Mass. -- Dante Scarnecchia was in his element.
He sat at home with a cup of coffee, at a table just off his kitchen, studying video of offensive line play on his laptop. He gripped a clicker in his right hand so he could start and stop the action at will. He hit pause to point out footwork, posture and hand placement. He referenced notes scribbled on pink Post-Its.
One of the most accomplished offensive line coaches in the history of football -- a five-time Super Bowl champion and member of the Patriots Hall of Fame -- Scarnecchia has been retired since 2020. But the 77-year-old remains, at his core, a teacher.
On Thursday morning, about seven miles from where he used to regularly address his 300-pound students at Gillette Stadium, over the course of 90 minutes, Scarnecchia taught.
The lesson? How arm length impacts offensive tackle play.
It is one of dozens of measurements prospects endure as they're poked and prodded ad infinitum prior to the NFL Draft at the end of April. But it matters for offensive tackles, and the difference of a few inches -- even a few eighths of an inch -- can impact your draft status, making or losing you millions.
Back in 2018, when the Patriots drafted short-armed Georgia tackle Isaiah Wynn (33 3/8 inches) in the first round, Scarnecchia made it very clear how he felt about the importance some placed on those arm measurements.
"That [expletive] is way overrated," he said.
When asked over the phone this week if he still felt the same way almost seven years later, he offered up an in-person tutorial. Sitting alongside him and watching video of pass-protectors doing their thing, he explained, would better illustrate the points he wanted to make.
"A picture," he said, "is worth 1,000 words."
Sword and shield
At last week's NFL Scouting Combine, where some of the largest and most awe-inspiring athletes in college athletics convene for the biggest job interview of their lives, one of the most buzz-worthy storylines concerned the results of LSU tackle Will Campbell's arm measurement.
For months, Campbell was widely viewed as the top tackle in the draft class -- not to mention a good fit for the tackle-needy Patriots, who own the No. 4 overall pick -- despite the fact that evaluators knew his arms were short.
The question in Indianapolis was exactly how short was his reach? Would Campbell hit 33 inches, the number that has become for some evaluators a modern-day cutoff for players at his position?
He would not.
Campbell's 32 5/8-inch arms ranked in the seventh percentile among tackles at the combine over the last 20 years. His 77 3/8-inch wingspan is the shortest of any tackle at the combine since 2011. For some, it's confirmation that Campbell should have to play guard or center at the next level.
Multiple NFL personnel departments have indicated that a large number of players in Indy this year had arms that measured shorter than expected, a not-completely-stunning quirk that can happen at the combine depending on who is doing the measuring. But among the teams contacted by NBC Sports Boston, the longest arm measurement on the books for Campbell coming into the combine was 32 7/8 inches, still well below average.
Does it matter, Scarnecchia was asked?
He called up clips of former Patriots tackles Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon, Wynn and others, highlighting their ability to "punch" defenders with two hands, jolting them off their paths.
He pointed out the "junction point," where a tackle and an edge rusher were set to collide.
He identified the "launch point," the defender’s target where the quarterback was expected to finish his drop from behind center.
Throughout, Scarnecchia paused the video at the time when his tackles made contact with their assignments. Their arms were consistently bent at the elbows, with their hands up and tight to their bodies, like warriors going into battle wielding a sword in one hand and a shield in the other, Scarnecchia explained.
They waited patiently for defenders to get close enough that a shove would do real damage, then used that coiled position to explode out and jar the opponents off course when the time was right.
Solder. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
Cannon. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
Vollmer. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
Wynn. Play. Pause. Elbows bent. Hands up. Play. Punch.
"When he's trying to rush around you," Scarnecchia said, "he's going to be close enough for you to hit him. How much punch are you able to generate? If your hands are in front of your chest, you're able to generate more than if your hands are down, or if one hand is up and one hand is down. You gotta be able to hit these guys with both hands. You gotta hit them with everything you got or they can get around you."
The point was clear. At the moment of truth, just before force was generated, all the tackles Scarnecchia showed were tightly wound with what might best be described as "alligator arms."
That was sound technique. That was what Scarnecchia taught. And in those moments, when the proper technique was deployed, the difference between Wynn's 33-inch arms and Solder's almost 36-inch arms was indiscernible.
"Can you fix guys and get them to play better if they happen to have shorter arms? Yeah, you can," Scarnecchia said. "If they really take coaching and you get their hands where they're supposed to be, and carry them where they're supposed to be, and you don't violate those principles, then they have a chance to do all right.
"I don't think [short arms are] as problematic. It becomes problematic when they can't do the things you want them to do to overcome that particular limitation."
Trust the tape
Scouts and coaches who have spoken to NBC Sports Boston about Campbell and his arms echoed Scarnecchia in arguing that length isn't the be-all-end-all, even for tackles. A player shouldn’t be outright dismissed because of arm length, they explained, unless an on-field assessment of the player raises questions about that particular measurement.
"For me, you ask, 'What does the tape say?' It's only a concern if it shows up on tape," said one offensive coordinator whose team is in the tackle market. "Are his arms getting knocked down and are people getting into his chest?
"You have to judge his play first, and then if you notice the limitation, then that's when you go back and dig into it. But if all he's doing is locking [expletives] down, it shouldn't prevent you from taking him."
Campbell has spent the better part of the last three seasons locking pass-rushers down. The 6-foot-6, 319-pounder was a three-year starter at LSU, a two-time captain, and was named a consensus All-American for his play last season. He allowed just two sacks over the course of the last two seasons, according to Pro Football Focus.
"Will is so good with his technique and his hands and playing inside out," said one scout whose team is in the tackle market this offseason. "He's had dominant stretches in the SEC, which is obviously a great measuring stick. That's the best competition out there."
Scarnecchia is working with two draft-eligible linemen this offseason in Boston College's Ozzy Trapilo and Drew Kendall. He's not oblivious to the coverage Campbell has received since the combine, but he admits he's not an expert on Campbell's game.
When asked more generally if he would be comfortable playing a short-armed tackle back when he was coaching, he answered emphatically.
"Yes," he said. "If he can do what you ask him to do, and there are no liabilities in his play? Heck yeah. But if it all of a sudden just kept showing up and showing up, and, 'OK, this is a problem,' then you've gotta do something else."
No absolutes
Length at tackle, of course, is preferred.
It can help coaches and roster-builders breathe easy to have physical prototypes at that position. If linemen find themselves in a bind and if their technique slips, a few inches in arm length can provide more margin for error. There are reasons NFL teams have benchmarks they would like to see their draftees hit at that position, just as most teams have hand-size preferences for quarterbacks and 40-yard-dash time thresholds for cornerbacks.
“It was poison (at one time)," Scarnecchia said. "People would say a guy who was 33 inches couldn't play out there at tackle. Well, that's been proven incorrect. There's enough of those guys that are playing.
"Jake Matthews has 33 3/8 inch-arms, been in the league 11 years and played out there pretty good. You just can't say, 'It has to be this.' Penei Sewell (33 1/4 inches). Matt Light (33 1/2 inches). There's just too many examples of this."
Penei Sewell (3x-Pro Bowler, 2x First-Team All Pro) is one of the best offensive tackles in football.
Scarnecchia put the clicker aside, held his hand up in the light, and made a pinching gesture to show the additional length Campbell would need to change the minds of those who feel he can't play tackle as a pro.
"Your thumb and your first finger," he said, "what's the difference? It's where [your arms] are and how you use them. It's how you carry them and how you use them. I think that's really important."
A league source whose team has scouted Campbell closely felt similarly.
"If he was a half-inch longer, I don't think it'd even be a question," the source said. "Having longer arms would maybe make you sleep a little better. But some have 35 inches and don’t use it. I think Will uses all 32-plus on every snap.
"For me, it’s not a big thing. He’s done a really good job his entire career. I don’t think it’s a one-size-fits-all thing. Look at everything. Look at how he plays, his technique, his angles.
"I think Will is a tackle. Based on his film, his consistency, his dependability, his athleticism, his strength, if we took him and played him out there, I’d be super comfortable with it."
'Is it a factor?'
It's possible that a lack of length could help lead to poor technique. Scarnecchia was careful not to imply that having shorter arms was a total non-factor.
But when asked if it could lead to lunging or other lapses in fundamentals that could make a tackle vulnerable, Scarnecchia leaned once again on the core concepts that he tried to ingrain in his players for two decades.
"If you carry yourself with your weight to the inside of your midline, where you're always strong to your inside -- because everything you want to force is to the outside, away from the launch point," he said. "If you start with that principle first, I think a guy will have more of a chance to be successful than if his weight is outside and now he's got to recover and come back in.
"The other thing is, and I may be completely different than everyone else in football that's coaching offensive line, but we're hitting them with two hands. Every time. We're not one-handing anybody. You've got to use every tool that you've got in your box, and you've got two of 'em. Why would you ever just use one? I think two hands are really important.
"I think the misusage of hands -- whether too wide, or you're not hitting them with enough, or you're reaching instead of punching -- punching is when they're close enough to hit. Reaching is when they're too far away to throw a punch. I think that's poison. I think you've gotta wait and be patient, and when they get close enough to hit, you gotta hit 'em."
Campbell's play at LSU would suggest his technique is already advanced.
Last season, in a three-week stretch, he saw three potential first-round pass-rushers -- Landon Jackson (33 1/4-inch arms) of Arkansas, Shemar Stewart (34 1/8-inch arms) of Texas A&M and Jihad Campbell (32 1/2-inch arms) of Alabama -- and didn't allow a sack, all the while flashing the elite-level athleticism he put on display at the combine.
Check out NFL Draft highlights from OT Will Campbell out of LSU
"In pass pro," NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah wrote while ranking Campbell as his No. 9 player in the draft class, "he stays square, bends well and keeps his hands in tight. He will expose his chest at times (due to his lack of ideal length) but he's able to recover after giving up some initial ground.
"He can slide and redirect with ease. He flashes the upper-body strength to torque and control defenders... He is just scratching the surface of his potential and should start at tackle for a decade, provided he stays healthy."
For Patriots coach Mike Vrabel, taking Campbell early in the first round would be a statement pick.
Aside from the possibility that he could protect quarterback Drake Maye's blind side for years to come, what Campbell is expected to bring in terms of intangible qualities would make him a particularly good fit for a franchise looking for leaders.
Scouts believe his football character, competitiveness, and work ethic would embody that which Vrabel values. The unspoken message behind the pick would be that, with Vrabel in charge, how you play matters more than how you measure.
It would be a sentiment shared by the o-line coach who lives down the road from Vrabel's new office, who carved out a legendary career working with various body types at one of the game's most important positions.
"I feel like [length] is not the one thing you should evaluate someone on or discount someone on," Scarnecchia said. "When a guy has marginal arm length, you look and see, 'Is it a factor in how he plays?'
"If it's not, then it's overrated."
Sorry coach, not in this case.
Doing the insufficient amount of research I've done so far, I currently see 5 players worth taking at #4, under the current circumstances. This can change, obviously, with more research, more Patriots moves, etc...
Carter
Hunter
The two tackles
The TE
Given the Patriots current needs, and the overall lack of strength at the top of this draft, those 5 players make sense for the Patriots at #4. Playing trade down games when you need players at those positions is a dubious idea this season.
Carter
Hunter
The two tackles
The TE
Given the Patriots current needs, and the overall lack of strength at the top of this draft, those 5 players make sense for the Patriots at #4. Playing trade down games when you need players at those positions is a dubious idea this season.
Similar threads
