I hope they don't do drug testing at your work
Patty Mahomes GOAT
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Mazz22
Tom Brady GOAT
Wow. How many drugs are you on??
Ice_Ice_Brady
the executioner’s face is always well hidden
Mazz22
Tom Brady GOAT
Let's discuss how big of a hit Mahomes legacy took after that loss.
The talking heads who had him ahead of Montana
with a win have now backtracked so fast Mike Tomlin would be impressed.
I see things quite differently. Overall, given his statistical drop off the last 2 seasons combined with his 2 SB blow outs, I don't see him cracking the top 5 all time when everything is said and done. I am curious where others have him right now? I do have him ahead of Rodgers barely just because of the rings and SB appearances but stats-wise, Rodgers is an all time great.
The talking heads who had him ahead of Montana
with a win have now backtracked so fast Mike Tomlin would be impressed.I see things quite differently. Overall, given his statistical drop off the last 2 seasons combined with his 2 SB blow outs, I don't see him cracking the top 5 all time when everything is said and done. I am curious where others have him right now? I do have him ahead of Rodgers barely just because of the rings and SB appearances but stats-wise, Rodgers is an all time great.
Let's discuss how big of a hit Mahomes legacy took after that loss.
The talking heads who had him ahead of Montana
I see things quite differently. Overall, given his statistical drop off the last 2 seasons combined with his 2 SB blow outs, I don't see him cracking the top 5 all time when everything is said and done. I am curious where others have him right now? I do have him ahead of Rodgers barely just because of the rings and SB appearances but stats-wise, Rodgers is an all time great.
When people start to really break down his game, they're going to start acknowledging what should have been obvious. That'll be a blow to his legacy, but it's not a killer. We're still looking at a HOF/all-time QB. But it needs to be more often noted:
- The rare high first round QB who went to a high quality team
- Has spent his entire career under the tutelage of one of the greatest offensive minds in the game
- Started his career with a stacked offensive roster that allowed him to get away with doing the shit he was doing (and doesn't do now).
- Has seen his defense improve even as his offense has declined, keeping him at the top of the conference in the "no historically elite QBs" era of today.
There's more, obviously, but that should start percolating over the course of the offseason. It's not every first year starter who steps into a situation where he's throwing to Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Sammy Watkins (when healthy), and gets a 23 year old Kareem Hunt to do the running for him.
And it shouldn't surprise anyone that, after one year of the league adjusting to the Chiefs offense without Hill, and with Kelce in decline, Mahomes has put together his two worst seasons as a QB, even as the NFL has given him more favorable rules and officiating, and his defense has become much improved. He's a great QB, but, while he's still got plenty of time to continue developing his game, as of now he's not Brady, he's not Montana, he's not Starr, he's not Baugh, He's not Graham, he's not Unitas, and he's not Staubach.
Wanna debate whether or not he's Young, Manning, Favre, etc...? Ok, we can have that debate, and the pro-Mahomes arguments will at least be reasonable. Wanna debate that he's a top 7 guy right now? Sorry, but that's not on the table. This is the Manning debate all over again though, as I noted a bit earlier, Mahomes still has plenty of time to improve his game and standing.
Ice_Ice_Brady
the executioner’s face is always well hidden
There are a lot of QBs whose career at or before age 30 was projected on an upward curve and was “on pace” to go up and up and up in all time rankings. It rarely actually works like that.
The most recent pre-Mahomes attempt to artificially gin up a G.O.A.T. controversy, Aaron Rodgers, is a great example of that truth.
Mazz22
Tom Brady GOAT
When I watch Mahomes' game, I see Big Ben and Cam Newton qualities with the school yard style of play and off platform throws. That style of play never leads to longevity in terms of top level play past the early 30s. Mahomes turns 30 this year.
Also, one thing everyone should take a hard look at with the SB is Mahomes inability to make any type of tight window throws that were routine for Brady. He had guys open but they were not "open enough" for him because Andy makes that offense so ridiculously easy. One other thing, he cannot diagnose a defense at all the way Brady could. Not even close. He just steps to the line and snaps the ball. I didn't see any audibles and the Eagles played the same defense all game. He was never able to get them out of it because he had no answer for what they were doing.
Lord Chevy
I'm home
Tom Brady started his career with his favorite receive being the one that was open. He didn't care about stats, he cared about results. That one thing never changed. There were times (2007) when the definition of open changed (Randy was open if you threw it to the right spot more than any other), but it was always about successful plays. How many other QB's approached the game like that?
Brady was gifted with a quick post-snap processing mind that was seemingly better than any we've ever seen, and combined that with a fanatical devotion to study (and the ability to comprehend and apply that study) that allowed him to take better advantage of pre-snap reads than possibly any other QB in the history of the game.
Might some earlier QBs have matched that if they'd been blessed with the tech of the modern QBs? Maybe, but we'll never know.
Just my $.02
He was also a menace and ultimate competitor
Ice_Ice_Brady
the executioner’s face is always well hidden
That GB-NE matchup in 2018 (?) was so cringe with the “two GOATs” hype the week before.
WhO iS MoRe CluTcH ThOuGh? The guy who is the best pressure performer in sports history or the worst?
PATS16N0
Well-known member
It’s 100% fair to put him above Rodger’s, which alone has him creeping towards top ten. He has a skill-set similar to Rodger’s without completely choking in the playoffs or having no balls when down in the 4th quarter.Let's discuss how big of a hit Mahomes legacy took after that loss.
The talking heads who had him ahead of Montana
I see things quite differently. Overall, given his statistical drop off the last 2 seasons combined with his 2 SB blow outs, I don't see him cracking the top 5 all time when everything is said and done. I am curious where others have him right now? I do have him ahead of Rodgers barely just because of the rings and SB appearances but stats-wise, Rodgers is an all time great.
A few things to consider: this era sucks.
10-40 years ago, a quarterback had to go through other REAL Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Josh Allen is not a real HoF QB. Getting a trip to the Super Bowl from beating him every year isn’t the same as having to go through Montana, Elway, Kelly, Aikman, Favre, Manning, Roethlisberger or and/or Brady.
Every postseason it was Hall of Fame quarterbacks taking rings from each others legacies in order to add one to their own.
I really can’t see Mahomes having much more success than a Philip Rivers if he played in the AFC in the 2000s.
Despite Peyton Manning’s very real reputation for crumbling before the Iron Will of Tom Brady and/or during huge high stakes games, I can’t rank Mahomes above him yet, even with more championships. I just feel like Peyton Manning’s Colts teams would roll this entire league without a Brady around.
Peyton with no Tom around would be unstoppable in this league. He probably wouldn’t even feel the pressure that would get to him when he played.
Lost in the wild card round twice (Colts, Titans)
Lost in the divisional round twice (Patriots, Steelers)
Beginning in 2001, the SB entrants from the AFC were
Patriots
Raiders
Patriots
Patriots
Steelers
Colts
Patriots
Steelers
Colts
Steelers
Patriots
Ravens
Broncos
Patriots
Broncos
Patriots
Patriots
Patriots
So, in 18 years, there were just 2 seasons (Raiders/Ravens) where it was not one of the 3 obvious first ballot HOFers going to the SB for the AFC. That means that those 3 teams, stocked with absolutely elite QBs, were forced to battle each other year after year.
